Re-shell and DVLA

General MGB discussion
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George Wilder
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Forename: George
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Re: Re-shell and DVLA

Post by George Wilder » Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:09 am

Steve
As Ian says check the provenance as far as possible.

You don't say what year you car claims to be but here is one scene which MAY explain the situation.

Up to a few years ago the tax exempt cut-off was 1973 and it stayed that way for many years. If you look at the figures of MGB surving on "How Many Left" you will see a peek year of 1972 and then a raid drop off.

Apparently as there were so many MGBs around and being scrapped in the past it was quite easy to buy a "logbook or V5c" with or without the remains of a rusty pre 1973 car. Then transfer the VIN or Car number to a 1973 onwards car you had a tax free MGB! Easy to change VIN or Car number plates thus the registration. MOT testers were not not so concerned either as long as the numbers on the paperwork were found on the car.

Just a possible explanantion and not my car!!! A genuine 4 owner (including me) from new 65 roadster albeit registered with my number plate 251 GRW.

Good luck with your searching
George Wilder
1965 MG MGB Mk1
1995 MG RV8
2005 MG TF 135
1959 BSA D7 Bantam

Ian Fozzard
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Re: Re-shell and DVLA

Post by Ian Fozzard » Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:22 am

Thanks George. That does sound plausible. What I'm not sure about is if the VIN says "roadster" can Steve present a GT without problems for Mot or for any dealings with DVLA etc?

Ian F
1972 BGT, Blaze, Navy trim, recessed grill
1961 Midget, 948cc, Clipper Blue, Blue trim and weather gear

Steve R
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Re: Re-shell and DVLA

Post by Steve R » Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:05 pm

Thanks for the replies. The Heritage Cert says roadster the v5c says model: B body type: sports.

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Re: Re-shell and DVLA

Post by Steve R » Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:27 pm

All has become clear as George wrote pretty much

Ian Fozzard
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Re: Re-shell and DVLA

Post by Ian Fozzard » Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:17 pm

Well that sounds not too bad - pleased to be proved wrong this time!
What might you do next? I guess the car you have is essentially a BGT with an incorrect V5?
If you happened to have the correct V5 for the car amongst your documentation, I suppose you could try and reunite the car with it's correct documentation?
Others here (George?) could perhaps advise how easy and desirable this might be? I would certainly do this myself- if it was possible to do.

Ian F
1972 BGT, Blaze, Navy trim, recessed grill
1961 Midget, 948cc, Clipper Blue, Blue trim and weather gear

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Bumpa
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Re: Re-shell and DVLA

Post by Bumpa » Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:21 pm

A friend of mine built a V8 roadster in a new Heritage shell using an old rusted out GT as the donor car. When he came to register it he hit all sorts of snags because (A) the Heritage shell has its own stamped-in VIN number which didn't match the chassis number on the GT's V5c, and (B) because the GT had become a soft top. It took him months to persuade them to accept it under the old registration number and thus be a Historic Vehicle. They even sent the police round to inspect the car at his home! It did eventually get registered as a MGB GT Convertible.
Mike
1969 MGB GTV8 3.9 Conversion, 1977 Triumph Dolomite 1850HL, 1971 MGB roadster undergoing restoration.

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George Wilder
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Re: Re-shell and DVLA

Post by George Wilder » Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:54 pm

Hi Bumpa
BMH Shells do NOT carry a VIN number these can only be issued by manufacturers of complete cars and in some obsure cases the DVLA.

BMH shells have abody number - which is NOT a VIN number. The DVLA do not record body numbers. The problem of your friend is that they appear to have tried to use the body number as a VIN number - that just does not work.

As I said previously the DVLA do become diffcult when reboding a GT as a roadster and vice versa
George Wilder
1965 MG MGB Mk1
1995 MG RV8
2005 MG TF 135
1959 BSA D7 Bantam

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Bumpa
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Re: Re-shell and DVLA

Post by Bumpa » Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:36 pm

That makes sense George. As you say, they must have used the body number as a VIN. The car in question was built and finished more than 15 years ago so would have had to have a test before going on the road and I guess the discrepancy was picked up then.

When I built my V8 conversion I just rebuilt the original shell so didn't have these problems.

As an aside, I see you have a BSA Bantam. That was the first bike I ever rode, before I was sixteen. It was my Dad's go-to-work transport and was quite an early model with plunger rear springs and a sprung saddle. With perseverance, and lying on the tank, you could get it the max mark on the speedo - 55 mph!
Mike
1969 MGB GTV8 3.9 Conversion, 1977 Triumph Dolomite 1850HL, 1971 MGB roadster undergoing restoration.

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George Wilder
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Re: Re-shell and DVLA

Post by George Wilder » Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:39 am

Mike
My Bantam is probably a little later than the one you rode though I know the original owner used it to get to work at Paxmans Diesels in Colchester.
A long story in between then and now. It is in fact a 1958 built 59 registered D7 the ninth one off the production line and the oldest D7 known to still exist.
George
George Wilder
1965 MG MGB Mk1
1995 MG RV8
2005 MG TF 135
1959 BSA D7 Bantam

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Richard A
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Re: Re-shell and DVLA

Post by Richard A » Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:33 pm

As a new subscriber to this Register, I have only just come across the debate about the retention of chassis numbers with a new body shell. The following is my experience of this very problem, and I suggest that there is only one way to stay on the right side of the law and, every bit as important, the right side of your insurance company. Should anyone have the misfortune to be involved in an accident where it comes out that your vehicle is not road legal…… Need I say more?

Piper Special Vehicles of South Bristol acquired a ’73 wreck of a green roadster, (it appeared to have gone backwards at some speed into a lamppost). From there they built a virtually new car, one which any purist would walk away from once the bonnet had been lifted. Due to Covid, so far it has only got 2300 miles on the clock.

As suggested on this forum, we thought that the chassis number could remain the same, and that number was stamped onto a new riveted-on plate; fortunately it was not stamped onto the new Heritage Shell.

I had dealings with a very helpful and patient lady at the DVLA. I have been able to keep the registration, BUT a new DVLA chassis number must be obtained. The actual number starts with those letters. It has to be stamped onto the chassis and a new plate riveted on. If you think about it, not unreasonable as the chassis is definitely not the same one. After all, it seems to me that we are trying to keep the registration number and the Historic Vehicle category, and what does it really matter if the chassis number is different, when one of the selling points is that it has a new shell? Having complied with the various requirements, my V5C says, under Special Notes:

No. of former keepers 7.
1. REBUILT – ASSEMBLED FROM PARTS SOME OR ALL OF WHICH WERE NOT NEW.


The following is copied/pasted from the Kits & rebuilds D4 department letter/email:


As the replacement bodyshell/chassis is of the exact specification as the original, the vehicle can in this case retain its original registration number. . However, the original chassis number cannot be used and the vehicle must be stamped with a DVLA VIN as advised in my letter.

If the replacement was not new and of the same specification as the original, then we would be looking at re-registration of the vehicle under an alternative registration number.

Once confirmation that the DVLA VIN has been stamped has been received, I will be able issue you with a replacement registration certificate (V5C).



To me this sounds very reasonable! I reckon that the DVLA are being helpful. My car is highly modified and yet I still have the registration from the original wreck.

I suggest that you remain polite and understanding at all times when dealing with the DVLA. Remember that they hold all the high-value cards. Also be totally honest with the details of your vehicle.

The biggest problem I found was finding someone who could actually stamp the numbers onto the chassis and the little plate; obtained from the usual suppliers.

The car is accepted as Historic and is exempt MOT. However, I have elected to have it MOT’d in case I have missed something…. (My first car was a ’32 MG J2, bought in ’59, so you will realise that getting underneath no longer so easy! In ’64 I bought a new “B”; thereby hangs a tale.)

If this should make anyone have a "guilty conscience" about their car that is currently driving around, possibly illegally, from my experience it should be possible to correct the situation with only relatively little aggro......

Good luck!

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