My 'New' engine.

Technical MGB discussion
Vic Butler
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Re: My 'New' engine.

Post by Vic Butler » Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:01 pm

I reckon the swarf wasn't thoroughly cleaned out after machining. As Ian said, a full strip down and a thorough clean is necessary. The crank, big ends, mains and small end bearings should be thoroughly inspected and dealt with as necessary.
1977 Stage 2 MGB GT
1975 SWB Series 3 Land Rover with a later 2.5 petrol engine

Hazza1190
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Re: My 'New' engine.

Post by Hazza1190 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:34 pm

Hi Ian,

The engibe was being sold due to him doing a V8 swap. He showed me the car, and he was a very genuine and nice guy. I did buy it as a bit of an unknown, but i can tell its has a lot of money spent on it. Maybe just the construction was inadequate? He had only done approximately 500 miles on the engine as it was alwayd going to have a v8 swap.

I am hoping that its swarf from a previous machining work as its one of the 'better' scenarios. Anyway, i will be pulling it all to bits so will soon find out whether its done any damage.

Cheers,
Harry.

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Peter Cresswell
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Re: My 'New' engine.

Post by Peter Cresswell » Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:10 pm

Hi Harry
I know exactly how you feel! I bought an MG 1300 engine/gearbox for the Mk1 Mini Cooper I had. It was described a fully rebuilt and ready to go, but I've always stripped second hand engines down before using them to see what I had got, and in this case I found that one piston was cracked across the crown, the pistons had a mixture of correct rings and 'Cord' rings (remember them?) on most of the pistons, the main and bigend bearings were badly scored, the cam was badly worn. The head wasn't too bad (it MG1300/ Austin1300GT both used the MK3 Cooper S head), but only had single springs. The gearbox didn't have the close ratio gear cluster that Coopers and the MG/Austin 1300GT had. I was a bit of a nightmare really, and not as described but a few months had passed by before I found the problems. Fortunately I had a good stock of parts and managed to build a good 1293cc engine with the correct gearbox, but the machining to get it right cost around £850 (inc vat).
I your case, as already said above, a strip down and checking is needed. Hopefully it just needs a good clean out, and you might find it better to get this professionally done. If you try it yourself a powerwasher with the jet positioned in the various holes that give access to the oilways is very good at shifting bits. The main holes are where the oil pipes for the filter head and pipe to the oil cooler fit and on the other side at the rear of the block is the pressure relief valve so remove this and wash from there. It is worth doing it a couple of time in the reverse flow direction as well and finally run a magnetic probe all over the casting to get the last bits out. don't forget to clean out the oilway to the head and the ones in the head and rocker shaft. Also the oil filter head and oil cooler and pipes needs cleaning through. A bit of a job but worth doing thoroughly - It is just very messy to do if you do it at home! Fortunately new bearing are not overly expensive nor are gasket sets (get Payen if you can). Fingers crossed that there is no worse damage!
Final thought - are you sure the pistons are +090 and not +080 as I can't find a +090 piston or rings for it. Peter Burgess mentions +080 in his book so I assume he will know where to get them or the rings if needed. Give him a ring! +080 gives 1891cc capacity.
Good luck,
Pete
Pete
1969 MGB Roadster
2020 MG HS Exclusive
2007 Mercedes SLK
Plus 34 other cars since 1965

Hazza1190
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Re: My 'New' engine.

Post by Hazza1190 » Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:23 pm

Hi Peter,

Thanks again for the reply! Christ yes that does sound like a nightmare! Hopefully a good running engine now then haha!

I am going to strip the engine down over the next week (just waiting for my ziplock bags and a big box to put all labelled parts into).
I was hoping to get it sent off to get a good clean done but it doesnt seem like that many people near me do it. Theres a local machine shop that have a large ultrasonic cleaner so may ask them to clean it for me. I don't think they have a caustic bath which would have been good as I will be painting it maroon so would have given it a good decrease.
Im only 23 and doing a full resto on a "73 GT so im trying to do everything myself. I am incredibly ODC when it comes to doing it right and im very mechanically minded so i feel comfortable doing it myself. I've already stripped the original engine so know what to do now haha!
Can i ask, if i do end up washing it with my pressure washer, how do i make sure that its completely dry after cleaning it? I would hate to get the oilways/cylinderwalls/crank rusty.
I'm almost certain they were +90's but i will go out and check shortly (will try get a pic). I have already got a new Payen gasket too :)

Cheers,
Harry.

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Peter Cresswell
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Re: My 'New' engine.

Post by Peter Cresswell » Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:06 am

I have seen some incredible results from Ultrasonic cleaners, and they can be much better than chemical cleaning for alloy engine castings. If they are local to you though pop in and chat over your problem.
I don't think anyone uses acid dip these days since the tightening of laws regards the sale of acids. They use a much friendlier modern agent which produces the same results. In either case (ultrasonic or chemical) the block will be completely dry and devoid of any oil residue.
I had my MGB block and head casting chemically dipped and then to be sure washed them through with a pressure washer. It is difficult to say if any residue particles came out as a result of the extra wash, but it made me happy (and very wet!).
If you do clean it yourself, don't worry too much about rust. A squirt of WD40 will keep it at bay until you are ready to reassemble it but I would paint it as soon as you can after cleaning. If it is going to be a long time before you reassemble it wrap it in Clingfilm. The important thing is to make sure you get rid of all the particles you have found. Incidentally when I raced the MG TC I (along with others) used to paint the inside of the block as well. This would trap any nasty particles in the paint and prevent them from circulation in the oil. I also aided the oil to drain more easily into the sump (which I think was worth about 1/2 a BHP!).
I sold the Mk1Cooper to buy the MGB. I did to Minis to Monte tours with it - each were around 3000 miles in 9 days, plus several other trip including to the Le Mans Classic in 2010, so after 10,000 miles plus I decided I had done everything I wanted to do with it, so sold it. It went to enjoy the sun in Madrid!
Pete
1969 MGB Roadster
2020 MG HS Exclusive
2007 Mercedes SLK
Plus 34 other cars since 1965

Hazza1190
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Re: My 'New' engine.

Post by Hazza1190 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:35 pm

Hi Peter,

Thanks again for the reply!
That's great! I will definitely look into ultrasonic cleaning then. he's very local and seems to have very good reviews and testimonials. However your pressure washing way may also be an option, and will save some ££. I can always give it a go and if i don't like the result i can send it to get professionally cleaned.

So i had another look at the engine yesterday and the pistons are definitely +90's. I have attached some pictures. Please see other pictures that i have taken just for more of an overview. Cam followers 3 and 6 (i think it was 6) seem to be badly pitted. All others were fine. Cylinders have a lot of crosshatching however on the sides inline of rotation they seem 'worn. I cant see any other scoring of any kind.

Image'

Image

Image

Image

Cheers!
Harry

Ian Fozzard
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Re: My 'New' engine.

Post by Ian Fozzard » Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:27 pm

Harry,
that could be +060, rather than +090 I think?
The damage to the bases of the cam followers looks a little unusual to me, it could have been caused by metal particles becoming trapped between cam and follower. It doesn't look like typical wear.

Ian F
1972 BGT, Blaze, Navy trim, recessed grill
1961 Midget, 948cc, Clipper Blue, Blue trim and weather gear

Hazza1190
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Re: My 'New' engine.

Post by Hazza1190 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:31 pm

Hi Ian,
I was thinking that. However they all have a '.' between the 0 and 9. So all read '0.90'.

Regarding the cam followers i have had a look online and others have had similar pitting on their followers. But like you say, could have been due to metal fragments. I'm hoping the cam inst screwed...

Cheers,
Harry.

Ian Fozzard
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Re: My 'New' engine.

Post by Ian Fozzard » Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:25 pm

Well, looks like +90 then! A bit of a mystery. Are those cam followers flat bottomed? In the photo they look to be dished? As far as I know they all should be flat bottomed.
Worn cam followers that I've removed which are in a bad state usually look as if metal has been plucked off the base exposing a more granular metal beneath. From your photos the damage looks like indentation which is why I thought it may be caused by foreign bodies!

Ian F
1972 BGT, Blaze, Navy trim, recessed grill
1961 Midget, 948cc, Clipper Blue, Blue trim and weather gear

ChargedAutoGT
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Re: My 'New' engine.

Post by ChargedAutoGT » Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:05 pm

I have not seen +90 pistons for sale. has the block got liners? a typo? reading upside down?

most engines get a bit of swarf at oil change - i have a magnetic sump plug so you see them. but more like iron fillings not pieces. but to be on the safe side you could get parts inspected. sounds like it needs a good clean at least.

with any used engine i would prefer to strip and check but until you have some expert measurements i would not be too dispondent (tho i don't know what you paid....)

G

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