Is it OK to pass an MGB off as earlier than it is?

[Bumpa]

A friend of mine is looking to buy his first MGB and has been considering a supposedly 1964 model at a well-known dealer. It carries a registration plate with a B suffix. I have some issues with this car and wonder what others might think. The dealer admits that the bodyshell is from a 1968 car, and so has the wide tunnel and push button door catches. And yet the chassis number plate shows GHN3.

Under the bonnet is undoubtedly the 1968 engine which would be an 18GG I reckon, but it shows the engine number plate 18GA, which has obviously been transferred from the 1968 car. Oddly enough it still has a 3-synchro gearbox and no overdrive. The gear lever is the 4-synchro type sticking up vertically, rather than the bent 3-synchro type.

I guess that rather than restore and sell the 1968 car, someone has decided that an earlier 1964 car might fetch more money, and it is being advertised at quite a high price, with the “benefit” of all matching numbers – well it would have wouldn’t it! The car does seem to be very good condition.

Is it legal to do this? Would you consider purchasing this “hybrid”?

[10coupe]

Hi, I am not sure what the regulations are when a car has been re-shelled, whether it can still carry the original body number or not and also the engine number being changed back. It would be interesting to see the registration document to see if it ties up.
I guess if it is a reputable dealer and they have made this clear it's perhaps ok. I think it should be reflected in the asking price though.
Personally I think I would leave this one alone!
cheers
Neal

[Bumpa]

Price is £15,950 although the dealer told my friend that could be negotiable. I would worry about resale value when my friend wants to move it on. My friend is 77 years old so I don't suppose he will be keeping it for decades!

[Ian F]

Hi Mike, for my part I would regard this MG as a "bitsa" and consider it something to avoid at all costs
I recently enjoyed ownership of a series 2a Land Rover, and a frequent topic of the club forum was the despicable trade of more recent Land Rovers being passed of as something earlier - and probably more valuable.
An aquantance also purchased a prewar MG described as a J2 and then found it was in fact a J1 with a bodged together body etc to pass of as a two seater J2. He got a refund from the dealer. There are of course many saloon chassis from prewar cars now sporting sporty two seater bodies.
There are of course lots of rules and regulations regarding modifications from original condition and what this means for identity and registration. See Government guidance on this

Ian F

[Vic Butler]

I'd give this a wide berth. There are plenty about so look elsewhere.

[Not_Anumber]

Quite a few early cars in particular will have been reshelled and I suspect most of their current owners dont know and would be surprised if they found out. It would only really be evident if a slightly different, non age tytpical, bodyshell had been used.
I dont regard it as dodgy as such, just bear in mind the practicality that the same questions will be asked when it's time for your friend to resell the car. Some may be put off but others wont be, Any MGB priced at a relatively princely £15,950 is more likely to attract detailed scrutity, informed questions and likely an indenpendent vehicle assessment than say a car being sold at sub £ 10k.

[Ian F]

This is from the Gov.UK website guidance:

Keep a vehicle’s original registration number

A rebuilt vehicle can keep its original registration number if you can prove you’ve used:

the original unmodified chassis or bodyshell (car or light van)
a new chassis or monocoque bodyshell of the same specification as the original (car or light van)
the original unmodified frame (motorbike)
a new frame of the same specification as the original (motorbike)

You must also have 2 other major components from the original vehicle from the following lists.

For cars or light vans:

suspension (front and back)
steering assembly
axles (both)
transmission
engine[/i]

Some of this is open to interpretation!

Ian F

[Rommel]

Well I have been looking at this, and don't know what to make of it, claims to be original chrome bumper? but has a GHD chassis prefix which belongs to a MGB GT, it is obviously a rubber bumper conversion, how can this be a 1969 car??? think I will look elseware too dodgy !

https://www.carandclassic.com/l/C1788305

[Ian F]

I believe that the bottom line with this MG is that it is legally a 1968 car and cannot be passed off as a 1964 car- the identity goes with the bodyshell (or the chassis if the vehicle has a separate chassis).

The exceptions to this are that a complete new bodyshell or a complete new chassis of the same design can be used in restoration and the original registration and identity can be transferred.

What cannot be done, as far as I understand these rules, is to use an exiting original bodyshell or chassis from another vehicle to restore/rebuild a different car. The original bodyshell has to carry the original identity.

Ian F

[Bumpa]

Thanks for all your various observations. I'm relieved to say that my friend has decided not to go ahead with buying the car. Apart from the obviously wrong chassis number, it seems bizarre that the engine, which is obviously a later 5-main bearing unit, carries an 18GA engine number.

The problem my pal has is that he wants to buy a really nice, rust-free MGB roadster for as little over £10,000 as possible. Such things may not exist any more. Anyone know of one, preferably within striking distance of Surrey?